Harassment on the High Peak: When an Everest Guide Does You Wrong
August 3, 2007
For many of us, coming up with the $40-50,000 to take a once in a lifetime gamble on Mt. Everest seems like a lifetime away. What if you spent that kind of cash only to be told that you weren’t climbing? What if you spent that kind of cash, the guide tells you “No Go”, then deliberately grabs your belongings and scatters them throughout camp? While he is at it, he might as well do it in front of not only your team, but a film crew to boot and show the whole world how worthless you really are..
This is the news coming from Betsy Huelskamp. Many of you may remember Betsy as the tough and rugged mountain climbing biker chic that began an Expedition this year with Russell Brice’s Himex Team. If any of you followed the Expedition’s climbing blogs on Everest this season, then you would have probably thought of Betsy as Himex did: slow, didn’t know anything about mountaineering–including how to put her crampons on…as well as a bit self-involved.
Well, Betsy has decided to fight back. The picture she paints is quite different than what Himex would have you believe. She breaks down everything from the beginning stages where she first contacted Russell Brice about joining the expedition, and Russell seemingly accepts at a reduced rate of nearly 50%–to the final decision to not let her go for the summit push, and the subsequent temper tantram that ensued and left Betsy’s belongings scattered throughout the camp.
If this sounds like odd behavior coming from a guide on Mt. Everest, then perhaps you should reevaluate who you align yourself up with for that big Everest Adventure.
Betsy’s story is one of a few I have heard about recently concerning the guides and their attitudes towards the paid climbers. Betsy seemingly paid $22,000 for an Everest Camping trip that was anything but peaceful. Client Harassment may not be mentioned much, if at all, in the press–but it does happen…
Betsy has been kind enough to bring this subject to the attention of a good friend of mine, Mr. Alan Arnette. Betsy has supplied Alan with her story and the paperwork involved, including a couple of intriguing letters from Russell himself.
Russell would go on in his letters to Betsy about how he preferred his climbers to have previous 8,000 meter climbing experience…Betsy provided a complete profile to Russell, that included the fact that she had not previously been on an 8,000 meter peak. So how would this play out? Russell would invite her along…AND…only charge her half of the going rate.
Now you tell me, is this about Climber Safety or about Money?
Much has been said recently about “Climber Ethics” on these big peaks, but perhaps Climber ethics isn’t all that is in play here. More and more we see individuals that seemingly shouldn’t even be near a mountain–yet the guides have put them there for one reason…money.
Granted, Russell Brice didn’t let her go up. Betsy did have previous climbing experience, but I am not here to judge whether or not she should have been allowed to go for the summit. We all know that on Everest, even experience doesn’t really count for a whole lot.
What this is about is plain and simple harrassment. You have paid someone good money for their leadership skills and experience–should you not also be paying for professionalism and respect?
On another note, after Betsy was seemingly forced out of the loop with Himex, she got none of her money back–this to me is another problem. She basically handed over $22,000 to sit alone in a tent..with probably some pretty decent food from what I have heard, but still….it is $22,000–even if that was half the price. Once you pay for an Expedition the money is theirs–whether you go to the summit, or just take a nice relaxing trip to basecamp–you cannot get any of it back. No matter what happens and what is involved, the Expedition companies pocket the money. No Refunds.
These days if you buy a Bigmac, which is a registered trademark of McDonald’s by the way, and it comes with lettuce, which you did not like…what do they do…they either refund your money or give you another burger…perhaps this seems like a silly comparison…but it all comes down to customer satisfaction–Betsy was that customer. To this day, nothing has been offered to Betsy..no money…no free pass to Everest next year…not even an I’m sorry for harassing you, instead, Himex has buried this story and is trying to keep it from the public.
Betsy is, as I have mentioned a Biker. She is also a writer for one of the leading female motorcycle publications in the world. Shortly she will be publishing her account of the events that surrounded her unglamourous trip to Mt. Everest in her biking magazine. Whether this will have an effect or not on the climbing community, I am not sure, but with Betsy beginning this campaign to bring to light the harassment that she encountered, I am sure others will be following. This is definately not unheard of. It will go until it becomes a bigger issue. Betsy is trying to get that ball rolling, all the while trying to protect others from falling into this same trap.
If you would be interested in reading Betsy’s full account to Alan Arnette, swing on over to his site. He currently has a great discussion going on about this issue in his forum. A special Thanks goes out to both Betsy and Alan for this intriguing bit of information. Should definately make us all think twice about who we sign to guide us.
What Are Your Thoughts on this issue?
Is harassment very widespread when it comes to climbing guides? Also, how should you expect to be treated? If for some unknown reason you are unable to continue your expedition, should it be required that part of your money is refunded? I want to hear your thoughts regarding these issues. Comment below and let us know!
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Written by Jason A. Hendricks · Filed Under Adventure, Adventure Blogs, Alan Arnette, Betsy Huelscamp, Biking, Blogger, Blogroll, Camping, Discovery Channel, Discovery Channel Team, Documentary, Everest 2007, Everest 2007 North, Everest 2007 North Ridge Route, Everest Basecamp, Everest Expedition 2007, Everest Expedition Companies, Everest History, Expedition Companies, HIMEX, Harassment, Internet, Life, Mountain Climbing, Mt. Everest, Mt. Everest Expeditions, Mt. Everest Guides, Mt. Everest History, Mt. Everest Summit, News, North Ridge Route, Politics, RSS feed, Russell Brice, Sports, TV, Technology, Trekking, UK, USA, Uncategorized, Websites, blog, blogging, breaking news, climb, climbers, climbing community, extreme sports, headlines, hope, mountaineering, travel |
Thank you Mr. Hendricks for a very insightful article…I am a friend of Betsy’s who encouraged her to contact Alan. I hope for Betsy’s sake and the sake of the climbing community that this issue is exposed. No one deserves to be treated as she was…what was extraordinary to me was Medvetz attitude toward her on the mountain AFTER she had published an interview with him and promoted his second visit to Everest to other motorcycle people. Gratitude doesn’t appear to be Medvetz’ strong suit.
This is a fasinating story… has the discovery special been aired yet?
Denise,
This program has not been aired as of yet. I will do some research and try to find out when it will be airing. I am interested in seeing this as well as a good friend of mine was also a part of this, David Tait. Have a couple of interviews and such with him in my Everest 2007 section. Have a good day.
I am scratching my head in bewilderment on this one. As a previous hiking guide on the West Coast Trail in BC, Canada, I can attest to the fact that customer service is the only ingredient that will keep a guiding company in business. As a guide, your focalpoint should be the safety of the client but your duty is to help the client achieve their goals. If the client is incapable of said goals then the guide should, at the very least, try to make the rest of the experience enjoyable. This to me is just basic common business sense.
I was once in a situation where I had a very difiicult client. She was to be with us for the 8 days we took to complete the WCT. She was a bit of show off, would complain about almost everything, and would belittle the rest of my clients by saying that the WCT is “a baby trail” compared to the trails in New Zealand (where she was from) and that the pace was too slow. I wanted to send this lady home. She was very hard to work with and she was bringing down the overall mood of the trip for the rest of my clients. On the fourth day in, she fell and broke her elbow. (good Karma, bad Karma….right)? I had to air evacuate her out.
I could have talked down to this client. I could have “called her out” in front of the rest of the group. I could have easily told her shut up (among other things). But I didn’t. She paid me for a service and when I cashed her check I accepted her as a client. Instead, I accepted her behaviour and tried to let it roll off me. I also quietly chatted with the rest of my clients and used humor to diffuse any residual affects this lady was having on them. This is just part of the teritory that comes with being a guide. It is my job to manage the situation. The rest of my clients by the way, were not as affected as much as I worried they would be.
Quite frankly Mr. Brice….if you can’t stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen.
My point is that a guide should not expect the client to pay for any pleasure that the guide may get out of the trip. A guide’s job is to provide a service to the paying customer. A guide’s job is certainly not to take advantage of a keen prospective client in order to further their own ambitions. If a team leader has his/her own private agenda then that team leader needs to go get a guide of their own.
I think this is once again a situation of where a person with a poor level of skills is asking to complete something so out of character for her, does it not make sense that the guide use common sense in not allowing the client with poor skills to climb Everest? It sounds like because she has money (but no skills) we should all cater to her. Please stick to your motorcycles and stop whining about your experience. Most likely her guide stopped her from likely death anyways, how could she possibly have focused on climbing when she was having a temper tantrum? I’ve seen hundreds of this type of climber, both male and female, ego driven with their Gold Amex cards. Please earn your status in climbing and stick to Kilimanjaro or some little mountain near your own town. 8000 meters should be manatory previous to climbing Everest. Do we want another repeat to Rob Hall’s expedition?
Telling her she couldn’t go up because she didn’t have the skill, couldn’t keep, or is in poor health is one thing, but telling her she can’t go up for some fairly arbitrary reason is another. Unless we’re not getting the whole story here, it sounds like she had a legitimate chance to summit, and Betsy even claims to have passed others on her acclimatization climbs, that did go on to summit. She also states that she was in great health, and suffered no symptoms of altitude sickness what’s so ever. So the question is, what was the real reason Brice told her she couldn’t go up?
On top of that, even if he did decide that there were legitimate reasons to not allow her to summit, there was no reason to throw a tantrum, let alone some of her gear, across the mountain. She paid to be on the expedition, albeit less than some of the others, and it’s the guide’s responsibility to see her safely down to BC as well, not complaining about how he’s using one of his guides, which SHE PAID FOR, to begin with.
Whether or not she had the experience to be on Everest, and if another 8000m peak should be required, is a completely different argument imho.
Danielle,
I agree with the overall message in your response. It is the same as when “The Running Room” puts on a Marathon clinic. In order to participate, the clinic atendee must have, at the bare minimum, a 10k (6miles) base. That is to say that they must be able to run 10k comfortably before partaking in the bigger goal of completing the Marathon clinic.
However, I believe you are missing part of the point. Mr. Brice had every right to not allow his client to continue on. It is the way Mr. Brice decided to deal with this individual that has so many people up in arms. Quite often it is not the message but the way the message is delivered. Furthermore, I feel that Mr. Brice should have had a better handle on “Betsy’s” abilities BEFORE he accepted her as a client. But now, probably due to money, he has agreed to take her on as a client and it is unethical to “change your mind” on the mountain.
You can’t stop the Roller Coaster and get off at the top of the first big drop. You bought the ticket….now enjoy the ride.
There is an old saying…”People will forget what you say, forget what you do, but they will never forget how you made them feel”
Knowing Betsy just a bit, I think what disappoints, frustrates and angers her the most, is the way she was treated and not that she didn’t get the chance to summit. From the minute she set foot at the base of the mountain, she was ignored, shunned and disrespected. The only people who treated her with much humanity, were the sherpas….not to mention that her treatment was being filmed for all the world to see on the Discovery Channel. I doubt many of us would come home feeling good, if we’d been made to feel about 2 inches tall for almost 2 months.
Betsy clearly outlined her previous climbing experience in her application letter…and even wondered if it was enough to be accepted. Why Mr. Brice accepted her and dropped the price of participation from $42,000 to $22,000 will probably not be known….but it makes you wonder if he wasn’t looking for a little extra easy cash and never intended to let her try to summit. If she wasn’t qualified and experienced enough, he should have said so at the beginning. But, to then accuse her of misrepresenting her abilities in a humiliating fashion, on the mountain in front of cameras rolling was reprehensible. Betsy can be as pragmatic about things as the next person. She was quoted by one of the Everest bloggers as saying….paraphrasing here…”I’ll burn rubber down the mountain, if I’m endangering anyone.” If Mr. Brice had been a decent human being and told her in a decent way, that she just didn’t have the mountaineering/climbing skills to safely attempt the summit, she could have accept his opinion in stride. But, he chose to do it in a cold, humiliating way. Most of Betsy’s experience on the slopes of Everest, was miserable from the stand point of how she was treated. Her dream of attempting to summit Everest was turned into a $22,000 ( at a minimum ) nightmare, that probably seemed like it went on forever and left her with nothing but bad memories and feelings. The saddest part is that it didn’t have to be this way at all……it appears that humanity, respect and integrity was in short supply and at a premium in the Himex camp on the slopes of Everest.
The events that led to Brice extolling that Betsy misrepresented her climbing experience are discussed in Mr. Hendricks’ article. Her character is defamed by that public statement which is exactly why Betsy is fighting back. I also agree with Dave as it relates to her overall treatment; it was deplorable. Of lesser importance but merits discussion is the motive of Brice to offer a significant discount to Betsy two weeks prior to her leaving for Kathmandu. First, I can only assume that Brice accepted Betsy on the expedition confidant that she possessed the minimum skills to summit and posed no risk to his other clients all based on her experience, possibly a corroborating discussion with her previous expedition leader and later meeting with her; so the question is why discount the expedition? I have read opinions that suggest that Brice had no intention of allowing Betsy to attempt to summit. On Brice’s Himex April 18th blog he specifically refers to his clients as “Expedition Members (Summit)”, “North Col Climbers”, “ABC Trekkers”, and “BC Trekkers”; Betsy is listed under the Expedition Members (Summit).
The fact is, Betsy climbed to North Col on three separate occasions…she also never experienced any confirmed altitude related sickness; but Brice removed her from the summit team nevertheless…on the surface it appears rather arbitrary considering all the other climbers who experienced some difficulties during acclimatization were afforded the opportunity to attempt to summit…or was it the excuse that Brice needed to pull Betsy from the summit team because he had no intention in the first place of allowing her to try and summit? Doesn’t that raise an ethics and integrity question? I am confidant that Betsy left for Kathmandu with the aspiration that she will have the opportunity to summit if she is capable (and I believe she was capable)…I think it raises the question Who Misrepresented Whom?
Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts.
I am not trying to lean one way or another hear, but as far as the expedition being discounted by Brice..I think I could possibly have an answer. For the answer I have to go back to 1996. The year Rob Hall and Scott Fischer tragically died. Jon Krakauer, famous for the “Into Thin Air” masterpiece–didn’t he get a free ride on Everest because he was involved in the media with Outside Magazine? I am 99% sure he had to pay nothing because the guides realized that Jon could give them some much needed publicity via the media. Perhaps the same rang true for Betsy. Just a thought.
Good grief- the issue wasn’t whether or not she could climb to the North Col but whether or not she could do it within the established time limit, which she could not. She also could not use basic climbing equipment and was passing out while she was going up the mountain. In what universe does this equal being prepared, mentally or physically, to climb Everest?
Watching the show its obvious: Betsy is a AAA narcissist who had no business climbing Mt Everest. What a big cry baby. Yes, Betsy, you are a weakling and deserving of all the scorn that is heaped upon you. On the mountain you couldn’t b.s your way to fame as you have evidenty been abe to do. Get a life chick!
Russell Reginald Brice is alive. Mark Jennings, UK, died in 1998 on Everest. Brice found his body at 8,200 meters. Michael Rheinberger was also one of Brice’s good friends. His body remains on Everest after he died there in 1994. Rob Hall, who died on the mountain in the 1996 disaster was also a friend. Do you think that Russell doesn’t know about the struggle and the desire it takes to achieve a summit? Climbers and those like Betsy that have no experience at these altitude’s are ignorant if they think that just because they paid to climb that they will be cleared to climb if they exhibit the symptoms of any altitude sickness. She was charged half the price to “have a chance” to climb Everest. If she was allowed to climb and died along side many of those who thought they could make it mind you many of them are way more experienced then Betsy would we be complaining that it was Russell that should have shown better judgment and not let her climb when she showed so many “leaks” in her technique? Put a cork in it, she has the money to try again. Perhaps she is scared, perhaps she is bitter at herself for failing, well she has been higher then most women in the world at the height she reached. She should be proud of her achievements and be training to make another attempt, not another liberal attempt to villianize a Honorable and great man like Russell Brice his expedition or anyone else for speaking their mind at one of the most deadliest places on earth. Do you think anyone will want to lead her back to Everest after starting a drama over not being qualified to be there in the first place? Crack open your note pad and start writing another one sided story Betsy perhaps that’s what you do best!
I watched the first three episodes. From what I can see, in the second and third episodes, she was clearly physically unable to do the climb. She seemed unaware of how badly she was doing compared to the others and maybe she still is unaware of how weak and slow she looked.
In her mind, she may think she is an adventurer who doesn’t give up. I commend her mental attitude in that respect. At the same time, her physical skills were obviously lacking. Just watch her lying down in the snow, even back in camp (not ABC but the other camp). She is saying how tired she is, how she is sorry she didn’t appreciate her life. She sounds terribly distressed and she didn’t even make it all the way to the goal, she gave up half way, with the hardest half in front of her.
What Russell said was that she may not have had the experience she claimed or she may have forgotten what she learned, I don’t see that as defamatory. He also said that Moyens was doing worse each time. He said that Tim was lazy and needed a kick in the ass.
I don’t see his remark about Betsy as being any different in kind than the remarks he makes about any other climber.
Personally, I don’t think she would have made it without endangering herself or someone else. When she got up after lying in the snow for what the guide said was at least 15-20 minutes, she said she didn’t want to do that.
I think she should thank Brice for stopping her from bringing herself to harm.
I don’t really care what the discount Brice offered was for, it is his business, literally.
I think all can see that she was not qualified by most standards, she disobeyed even the first commandment of high altitude climbing and that is constantly drinking, which she refused to do. I think what Betsy may have the problem with is mainly how she was treated as a human being, I never really read anywhere that Tim Medvetz had a ton of climbing experience and he seemed to be treated so much better. I dont understand about why anyone would throw her stuff all over the camp, why was that necessary. She had 3 srikes against her from the beginning,1–being a woman 2–experience 3–going for publicity…In her own words she loved the Everest shows last year.
Of course there are no refunds. The permit fee, tents, sherpa’s, guides are all in place. The costs are not recoverable. Himex is a business, I dont know where Mr Brice states anything to the contrary. The big problem with ‘ethics’ of climbing is that people lie. People say they have 8,000 m experience whereas in reality they have none (Not in this particular case). How do you propose that climbing companies vet their prospective clients.
Russel Brice gets so much crap whereas he is just a guy running a business with often loopy clients. As has been said before, one doesnt hire a guide to get you to the top, you hire a guide to get down safely.
Dave,
I just read your comments again on this subject, and want to ask you some questions. Was it Brice that threw her equipment all over the place? Do you know what if any experience Tim has with climbing? Russell had to have known from her first application for a spot on the team about all her experience. So, I dont know why he had to be so surprised once she got there. Do you happen to know if her and Tim ever had anything more going on than just friends? In the last episode he seemed very angry with her saying she disrepected the mountain and so on, my first thought was that to do that you would have to be doing some thing sexual on the mountain. And thats not the case here from what I have researched but those are strong words for Tim to use considering he has not a whole bunch of mountaineering experience himself. What do you think?? Sandra
If I were to drop 50K (or even 22K) on a trip to the Himalayas, I would spend my time seeking out the elusive yeti, albino cousin of the mysterious skunk apes & sasquatchii of North America. As for guided jaunts up ragged peaks, all climbers should first be certified for mountain or wilderness rescue, to understand just what a PITA it is to cart people out who get in over their heads. And I am pretty serious.
It seems to me that Mr. Brice estimated how well she would do and charged her accordingly. You can sign up to go to ABC for about $6000. She got to attempt the North Col. Perhaps he thought she could get higher, even if he doubted she would summit.
First of all I have watched EVERY show….and Betsy was given several chances to prove herself capable of making that climb…and she failed miserably EVERY time…Granted Russell shouldnt have given her false hope that she could possibly make that climb and then take her money…but has anyone seen her application? Who’s to say that she didnt exaggerate on how much experience she had? NO ONE knows the truth in what was on the application…except for what she is trying to make people believe….for all we know she could have said she had ample amount of mountaineering experience when in fact she had little if no experiance….and as far as her belongings being thrown aroud the camp…does she even know FOR A FACT who did that? Probably not……all she is trying to get is someone to throw her crying ass a pity party,,,,and if thats the case….I WILL NOT BE ATTENDING!!
I can’t believe people are writing “apparently she passed several people” or that the decision for her not to attempt the summit was “arbitrary”. Are you kidding?! Have you watched the series? At one point, she just collaspes and lies in the snow. There was no doubt at all in my mind that if she had been allowed to attempt the summit, she would have killed herself. Tim was right. Harsh, but absolutely right. She had no business at all being there. She should be grateful that Russell made a decision that saved her from herself. If Betsy was so hard done by, hey, you don’t need to go with a guide company. Get a permit and go solo. Face it, she was in no shape both physically and mentally to attempt Everest. People that don’t want to quit no matter what, that “don’t know how to quit” are the ones that die on Everest. Betsy needs to read a book like “Sheer Will” and realize that good climbers know when to back out of a losing situation. Maybe there should be a guide company that just says “yup, we take you to the summit, or let you die on the mountain, we’ll never turn you around.” As for Clint’s guiding ethics, just because someone has money doesn’t give them the right to walk all over you. Just because someone has paid their fare doesn’t give them the right to belittle other clients. Betsy was obviously a drama queen, and Russell and Dean obviously had the backbone to call it as they saw it. If a heavy storm had hit the North Col, when she was lying in the snow, then that’s where Betsy would still be today.
Here’s how I see it:
(1) Betsy falls in love with the TV show.
(2) Betsy falls in love with Tim while interviewing him for her website.
(3) Betsy signs up with Himex due to (1) and (2).
(4) Betsy begins annoying Russel, Russel’s guides and clients, and assorted Discovery Channel personnel from Day 1. This may be due to mysogyny or other unfair biases; it may also be due to Betsy’s personality and behavior. Only those who were there can say.
(5) Tim isn’t interested in Betsy, and Betsy isn’t otherwise fitting in.
(6) Betsy gets defensive and starts interpreting everything in Base Camp as hostility.
(7) It becomes clear that Betsy lacks basic mountaineering skills, including use of equipment.
(8) Like everyone else, Besty struggles on the hot test day. Unlike everyone else, Betsy curls up in the snow at the half-way point and is reduced to new-age babble.
(9) In considering who is qualified for the summit push and who is not, Russel knows that Betsy is endangering her life. Russel cannot think of a team with which Betsy would work well. Russel also determines that Betsy would reduce the chance of success for his other clients and endanger their lives as well.
(10) Russel saves everyone the inevitable drama and cuts Betsy from the Summit team. Discovery Channel producers are pissed off because they were salivating over the riveting footage of Betsy’s demise at Camp III.
(11) Betsy writes a one-sided article for her website, which conveniently opens the floodgates for the Russel-haters.
If you cannot stand you will never make it..She had problems all the way..It is not a stairmaster up there..Aerobic conditioning in a gym does not mean you are fit to do anything other than jumb around in a room at sea level. It takes a lot of heart, of which she did not have. Sorry, back to spin class for her.
Pleasure Dome Viking,
I totally agree with everything you said. you hit all the nails right on the head!!!!! This is exactly the way I envisioned it.
She was totally out of her league. And she came off as pretty damn annoying. No wonder everyone didn’t treat her with love.
Dear Jason & Betsy,
I have read your experience on Mt. Everest just recently and I think you should do anything possible to go after this guy Russell. Don’t be intimitated by them or nasty comments since there is a chance that these are organized by them. Rather involve the international press and the courts. Fight!
I have been on Mt. Everest myself with a commercial expedition a while ago and I think that I exactly know what you are talking about. My own impression as well as my observations of the crowd of commercial expedition providers and guides on Mt. Everest was such a bad one that I cannot recommend a commercial expedition to Mt. Everest to anybody. I had a strong impression of grossly negligent behaviour of theirs in the sense that their actions were focused mainly around making as much money as they could. Unfortunately, the clients are the ones paying for it, this way or the other way.
What a pathetic group of hate mongers…I am so disappointed in The Adventurists to allow such trash to remain on the site…has this world actually come to the point where it is now acceptable or encouraged to express disappointment that someone didn’t die on the mountain?
A final note to you morons who think you know anything…there is not one thread of truth in Pleasure’s post but you idiots wallow in it and enjoy your pathetic lives.
Dear Jason & Betsy,
As we can see from the SFH comment you are not dealing with the most polite group of people. Do NOT let them intimitate you!
My impression on Mt. Everest: in a various number it was the greed of commercial expedition organizers that has put their clients in life threatening situations, at first place.
My rant was not leveled at Fred Smith…of the post following the airing of the shows, he’s was the most sane post here.
I also think Pleasure Dome Viking is correct. As for charges of greed, Russel Brice, Eric Simonson, Dan Mazur etc are not exactly spending their off time flying their corporate jets. They provide a business to adults. Adults that realise that Everest is a life threatening situation.
I am curious as to Fred’s comments. Maybe you should elaborate more on your Everest expedition. What is the alternative for people wishing to climb everest if not a commercial expedition. Go Solo? Organise one’s own group? Are all commercial operators are equally as bad?
Dear Brad,
Thx for the comment. I am talking about my observation and experience and cannot judge anybody beeing good or bad. But my observation also gave me the very strong impression that these commercial guides were mainly after money! I even believe they are willing to put people in risky situations.
From what I saw I think climbers with not enough experience on a professional level simply should NOT go at all.
If climbers believe they have to go I think they should negotiate very strongly ( I have recently seen a few blocks in the web on this topic, as well) with the commercial providers and in NO case pay the full price in advance. For sure the Everest industry is a very profit focused INDUSTRY as many others.
To add to Kenny and Pleasure Dome Vikings comments:
Betsy is also running a business. She promotes herself as this super fit, strong, adventurer, personal trainer, superwoman etc. type of person.
If she had to summit Everest this would do her business a lot of good.
When she gets there and is unable to deliver the goods, the hype that she has created about herself is now going to take a rather serious knock.
Rather than admit that she just couldn’t hack it she attacks Russell and his business and blames him for being prejudiced and greedy to protect her own personal interests and image that she has created over time.
Wow…you can’t get anything by these ingenius readers here at The Adventurists. Gosh…you got it right…if she had only summitted she would have been crowned the grand pooba of personal trainers or at least be in that elite percentage of personal trainers that have summitted Everest? How many do you think…2 or 3 maybe?…a crown she so coveats…if only she had summitted…but drats…that was taken away by that ole meanie Brice…now what can she do with the rest of her life?
Let’s see…she is still “super fit, strong, and an adventurer…a superwomen” but gosh she didn’t summit Everest…she only got to 24,000 Feet…higher than any peak in the continental United States…what a wuss…nobody wants that type of trainer training you… right?
From now on every personal trainer I speak with has got to be in the Everest summit club or else I am going to take my big fat butt somewhere else…you got that right…she is going to be hurting for clients because she didn’t summit Everest…Not!
umm fred, in your previous post you did judge all commercial operations bad
“My own impression as well as my observations of the crowd of commercial expedition providers and guides on Mt. Everest was such a bad one that I cannot recommend a commercial expedition to Mt. Everest to anybody.”
plus, you do know what the definition of commercial is, in the term commercial expedition? It is not altruistic expedition or philanthropist expedition, nor volunteer expedition.
To be honest, I really doubt you have been on an expedition to climb everest.
Dear SFH…
I think that you are viewing this whole debate from a very one sided point of view. Russell Bryce’s job is to help people achieve their dream of summitting Everest, but also and more importantly to keep them alive in the process.
It is exceedingly clear if you watch the show that she is not as fit or as strong that she would like you to believe. Many people attempt an adventure such as this because it is a personal goal that they would like to accomplish. Others, and I fear Betsy is one of them, do it for the glory and adoration that they perceive will come with the successful completion of such an adventure. There is a adventurist in all of us, in some the drive is stronger than in others. There are many people who would love a shot at attempting to summit the highest mountain in the world but are unable to do so due to many other factors.
Taking nothing away from Betsy, she still did well to get where she got to. At the end of the day she just wasn’t good enough to go the whole way.
This story kind of reminds me of the schoolkid who comes home with a bad report card and then tells everyone that it is because their teacher didn’t like them… “…its the teacher’s fault I did bad at school…”etc. The friends and family of the schoolkid then go on a witch hunt to the school to get the teacher crucified.
If she was humble enough to realise that she just wasn’t good enough she would have accepted it and resolved to come back like a true adventurer being fitter, stronger and more prepared the next time rather than crying like a baby and blaming others for her failure. Should Russell have let her die on the mountain I wonder what the comments would have been like then. This is not a fairy tale this is about life and death. You have to be harsh up there to keep people alive, if you can’t deal with that then don’t get involved in the first place.
jason a. hendricks writes a good article and makes some good points. There are, however, some major flaws in his reasoning. When one wants to summit a major peak, safety is often the number one concern of most. “Will I be delivered safely back to base camp?” is the question of many prospective climbers. As a client, we are seeking “their leadership skills and experience”, as Jason so put it. Included in this is the guide’s version of “professionalism and respect”. This knife cuts both ways, meaning the client needs to respect the opinion of the expert(s) when one says that they are unfit to climb. And as for professionalism, this is a mountain setting, where death can occur at anytime. It is not a dentists office or something. What one can expect from a professional mountain climbing guide is that they use their previous knowledge to make an estimated decision of what is reasonable or not. When that decision is a negative, the client in this case needs to be humble enough to accept the consequences, regardless of money or whatever else is involved. I would advise Betsy to try to learn an ancient martial art and see just how far she gets with an ‘attitude’. Being a client also means that one needs to be humble enough to deal with the simple answers in life and accept them, not merely thinking that they can dictate what happens.
First, my response to GT was directly related to his assertion that not summitting Everest would negatively impact Betsy’s business as a personal trainer…it has in fact increased demand on her time. Second he paints two portraits; one of an adventurer that has a personal goal and the second of an individual seeking glory and adulation. So of course GT leaps to the assumption that Betsy is seeking glory and adulation without a thread of knowledge supporting that assertion. Why is that? It was certainly not portrayed that way on the Everest 2 Beyond The Limit series nor was she portrayed as anything other than a humble amateur climber on After The Climb series.
Everest 2 Beyond The Limit condensed roughly 7,600 hours of film captured by I believe 4 camera people from Tigress Productions, to a sum total of 5.5 hours of actual show time. Is it possible that editing that many hours of footage favorable or otherwise would provide a clear understanding of what Betsy or for that matter anyone on the mountain may have experienced those 2.5 months? You don’t climb 24/7 so there are personality issues that surface throughout the ordeal…and I doubt that that drama was intended to be the focus of the documentary…so none of that was portrayed during the series…so does that suggest that it didn’t exist? You weren’t there…she was…and she was specific to events…the fact that it wasn’t shown on the Discovery channel does not mean it didn’t happen!
She authored one story of her experience…the rest of the negative attitudes have been authored by people here and other sites based on what they read and forming opinions based on how they choose to spin the opinions of others.
Sadly Huge Climbing Fan has not read anything about Betsy or he wouldn’t have suggested that she “learn an ancient martial art and see just how far she gets with an ‘attitude’…you see she holds a first degree black belt in Kung Fu San Soo.
She did as she was told by Brice and the Guides and she was respectful in “After The Climb” so again…why decide to demean her…she should be praised for what she did accomplish. I am not even debating the decision by Brice…it is his decision to make and it was made…Betsy did nothing more than react to the disappoint of not being allowed on the summit team. Isn’t she permitted that emotion?
I see no evidence of harassment in your post. Those are serious allegations to throw at a business.
On the topic of the refund, why would she get a refund? She was not at MacDonalds. The deal is you pay for the opportunity and as explained in the show, you agree that Brice can decide if you are worthy under his guidance or not. By her own admission, she was not even halfway up the test climb when her 5 hours ran out. She missed 2 time trials in a row. It doesn’t cost Brice any less to not have not have her climb, unless you count the price he would have paid to get her body off the mountain had she continued.
One cannot “know” with certainty what the actual situations are when watching a heavily editted television program that is seeking to entertain. One, however, can make some valid remarks about issues raised by what is presented. I believe that it is fair to say that a person with reasonable experience in moutaineering could judge Betsy as nearly certain to fail to summit based on her performance, This doesn’t make her less of an athlete or tough minded person. She simply isn’t going to summit Everest. As to the commercial guide services, I have used at least 6 of them on climbs on 5 continents. They are seeking a profit, but they are no greeder than most for profit vendors and they have achieved a better safety record than amateurs on their own. They allow climbers with somewhat limited time to have an enjoyable experience climbing some significant peaks. I have had a few negative experiences, but overall I think they are superb.
After watching the episode with Betsy, I am just amazed at the whining that she didn’t get her chance. She’s damn lucky she didn’t. It is painfully evident that she had no business being on that mountain. Take out all the emotion and you’re left with some simple facts:
1. Some of the best climbers in the world have died up there. It’s no place for drama queens with big egos who haven’t adequately prepared.
2. Making it to the North Col has absolutely nothing to do with making it to the summit - Nothing!
3. If you are looking for kind words and coddling, stay off of mountains. I don’t know a single guide who isn’t a tad abrasive, especially if someone isn’t listening to their expert judgement.
4. When you pay for an expedition, you pay for the CHANCE to summit. Expedition leaders will normally give you the benefit of the doubt when you first hire them, because it is assumed that you have done your homework, have adequately prepared, and take responsibility for your own actions.
5. If Brice had allowed her to continue, he would have been negligent. He had absolutely no choice but to tell her to turn back. She would have endangered the lives of other people, as well as her own. Thank God Brice had more common sense than she did. She may very well have ended up dead.
6. Many people seem to think that just because you want to summit, means you have the right to. Betsy is a prime example of why Everest is so dangerous. Too many people who have no business being up there are making it unsafe for the people who are qualified to climb Everest.
7. Betsy, have you heard of personal responsibility??? Everyone is jumping on Brice for even allowing her to attempt, but what kind of poor judgement do you have to have to fork out 22k and not even bother to try on your crampons before going????
Trust me, I am no fan of Brice - quite the contrary. But when you attempt to summit Everest, YOU are responsible for your own training, your own preparation, and no one is going to hold your hand and do what you should have the common sense to do for yourself. She adamantly insists that she was honest about her experience, but did she ever do any research to see what skills she needed to safely attempt? Please - a little common sense and responsibility for your own actions is in order here.