The “Facts” About High Fence Shooting?!?
Posted by dukkillr on April 9, 2009
So Chief Chronicler, Albert A Rasch, stopped by The Daily Limit a few days ago to encourage me to join his discussion on game preserves. Since his own short bio suggests that he’ll settle differences in opinion with his fists, I chose to proceed with caution. Truth be told, I was fascinated by the title alone: “Game Reserves, Preserve Hunting, High Fence Hunting, What are the Facts?” What could be a better topic? Besides the obvious problem that the first, second, third, fifth, and sixth words are in conflict with the fourth and seventh, I mean. I was excited to learn the “facts” nonetheless.
I eventually finished the piece and when I was done I couldn’t find a single fact. There were some quotes… a few opinions… much pontificating… but no facts. I thought of some I might have added:
1) Most every high fence killing operation works on a “no kill – no pay” system. Doesn’t sound like fair chase to me.
2) No matter how ridiculously hard you push a high fence animal he can’t run onto the neighbor. That is to say, he can’t escape you. Doesn’t sound like fair chase to me.
3) Most every high fence killing operation has animal populations that are higher than could be sustained in the wild. This is obvious. If the population was lower inside the fence people would be hunting on the outside of the fence. Instead they are killing on the inside, presumably because they aren’t skilled enough or intelligent enough, or won’t work hard enough to succeed on wild populations. Doesn’t sound like fair chase to me.
4) The average high fence shooter has an IQ 25% below normal and a BMI 50% above the level for morbidly obese. (Ok, I made those facts up, but I bet I’m close.)
5) No single issue can destroy the reputation of all hunters like these tame shoots. Simply put, the public is cautiously ambivalent towards hunting. Most would join PETA today if they saw that video of Jimmy Houston shooting that drugged deer that had to be herded towards him because it was too screwed up to stand on it’s own. It was disgusting. THAT IS NOT HUNTING!
He dismissed the CWD risk without using facts to do so. Here’s a few facts on that topic:
1) CWD first appeared in Kansas from a tame deer herd. Several states have had CWD introduced by tame animals.
2) Tame deer and elk are regularly trucked all across the country which increases the risk of spreading a ridiculous amount.
3) Once established in even one animal a whole army of vets can’t fix the problem. The prions can live in soil for years, even if the animal is disposed of.
He also invoked his own definition of hunting – “Hunting is what you make of it.” So let me try this – Is it hunting that happens at slaughter houses? When my grandfather slaughtered hogs was that hunting? What if he made it hunting? You know, he put on some camo and channeled his inner Rambo? Or what if he decided to use a rifle instead of a .22 short pistol? The answer is obvious. It’s not hunting if the animal can’t get away. It doesn’t matter how you dress it up, it comes back to that. Hunting is pursuing wild game in their own environment. Putting them inside a fence is ranching, and they are no different from cattle, except a little of their majesty dies each time some fat idiot kills one of them.
Mr. Rasch also works the “We’ve all got to stick together” argument. I find this line of debate is only applied in defense of one’s own position. For instance, I’ve never heard someone say, “You know, I disagree with you but I think it’s important that we all stick together, so I’ll join you.” Instead it’s always, “We need to stick together so you’re wrong and I’m right and that’s it.” I don’t think we need to reach the merits of this debate but we can.
I support types of hunting that don’t appeal to me. Running bears or deer with dogs has never sounded that great, but I respect the tradition and would certainly give it a try if offered the chance. I support hunting with black rifles even though I don’t own one. In short, I’ll support those things that I don’t necessarily believe in because they are methods of pursuing wild game in it’s natural environment. It’s hunting. It’s an absurd notion that we as hunters need to support anything just because someone declares it to be hunting. What if the new method is hanging pound dogs by their tail until the die of starvation? If someone declares that it’s hunting because “it’s what they made of it” we all need to sign on? Of course not. For god’s sake, think for yourselves.
He wanders into some debate about land ownership but I can’t figure out how that affects the discussion. I couldn’t find any facts there, and I’ll let you try and decipher the meaning. I couldn’t, but I suspected it was some type of populist thesis about how rich people shouldn’t control ground or something…
Finally, he encourages us to, “Shun those who break the law.” To that extent I’ll direct you to this link. It’s a link to the announcement last week that:
Thompson Center CEO, Pro Hunter and Owner of Game Trails LLC Gregg Ritz along with Site Manager Dirk McTavish, Jr .have been fined $50,000 after pleading guilty to multiple Lacey Act Violations for illegally taking game animals in Kentucky.
I would have preferred to see the Pro Hunter part be in quotations. The violations took place on a tame deer farm where they film TV shows.


Dukkillr,
Regardless of my bio, I would just as soon keep it friendly if you don’t mind!
Let me start at the top
1 if you don’t kill, would that be fair chase? Does fair chase have anything to do with hunting?
2 What if you never see him?
3 Again you are defining hunting as only occurring under your personal parameters.
4 Not even worth commenting on.
5 One example does not make it true for all. You should know that as a hunter yourself. By golly man!
Next section:
I answered the CWD in your next post but that is where I started. sorry.
CWD happens. So does bovine pneumonia, hoof and mouth, and assorted and sundry contagious and deadly diseases. I don’t see a huge movement to stop ranching on that account. Now criminal acts are just that. And as I said throw the book at the bastards and make an example of them.
Hunting IS what you make of it. As long as it is ethical and moral you haven’t done anything wrong. Using your example of your grandfather, has he done anything wrong? If not, he can call it whatever he wants. Killing is killing. A little exaggerated but I hope I’m clear. Which brings me to another point, I really don’t care how you hunt, as long as you obey the law. If you got the loot to buy a 350 elk, have the guide shoot it for you, etc, all the more power to you. You’ll never share a campfire with me anyway. (I meant that in the third person, not directly at you Duk.)
Only you can tell me a good hunting story that you participated in. I’ll know, (because I am a hunter too), that you were hunting, even if it was cottontails in you back lot.
I like what you said in the 6th paragraph, starting with “I support types…” the only objection I can find to what you are saying is what we are talking about, high fence.
The land ownership comments are there because as I wandered around the internet, I found that a lot of the anti high fence came, not from an intellectual or philosophical abhorrence to the fence as it pertains to animals, but rather access issues. People are jealous. They make decisions, or allow others to make decisions for them. Then they wonder why they can’t hunt over there or wherever. Quite the contrary, I believe very firmly in property rights, just as much as I believe in the rights of citizens to demand redress and what is just. That is what the Constitution is all about, balance.
Last but not least, I think those guys at T/C got off easy. I may only be one fellow, but I will never knowingly buy anything from T/C. That’s just me.
Dukkillr, thanks for the spirited debate. I wish you might have added to the discussion at the Chronicles.
If you don’t mind, will you e-mail me so I can add your email to my list of fellow bloggers.
Oh and excuse any misspellings or poor grammar it is almost 0100 hrs here!
Regards,
Albert
The Rasch Outdoor Chronicles.
The Range Reviews: Tactical.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:56 pm
[...] Rasch objected to my characterization of his thesis as, “If it’s killing it’s hunting.” He thought my example of hanging pound [...]
April 29th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
i think you are an idiot ? you should get your “facts” together before you start calling stuff “tame” or unfair you are no better than any liberal with peta.
September 13th, 2009 at 7:16 pm